Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:05:07 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Bill Anderson"To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> History via T-SHIRTS, Buttons. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1195903978306.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.012 Sender: "Bill Anderson" Subject: Re: CM> History via T-SHIRTS, Multiple Posts. What about buttons? I have a button from a 1976 show with the year in binary, but the binary is wrong. I think I have buttons dating back to 1972 or maybe a little earlier. Bill Anderson ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:10:09 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Joshua Lederberg To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <431888990608.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.027 Sender: Joshua Lederberg Subject: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." <<<<< >Sarah Stein writes > Can anyone tell me the origins and meaning of the phrase "ghost in the machine," as well as some >history of its usage? >>>> This is the title of a book by Arthur Koestler, and refers to the purported inadequacy of mechanistic theory to account for the "soul". It is equivalent to Bergson's elan vital; and the counter- statement is nowhere pressed more forcefully than by Francis Crick in the title of his latest book. Koestler is also using the phrase in the context of original sin, if I may paraphrase, that man's evolutionary heritage ensures an irreducible propensity for violence. CN PR6021/K78/G427 Aa Koestler, Arthur TI The ghost in the machine. CL 384 p. PP New York: Macmillan. DA 1967. CN BF311/C928 Aa Crick, Francis TI The astonishing hypothesis: the scientific search for the soul. CL 317 p. PP New York: Charles Scribner's Sons. DA 1994. I debated this with Koestler in: 177. Lederberg, J., 1970. "Orthobiosis: The Perfection of Man" in Nobel Symposium XIV The Place of Value in a World of Facts, held in Stockholm, Sweden, 9/69 (Arne Tiselius and Sam Nilsson, eds.), John Wiley & Sons, In., New York, p.29-58. (and see a brief essay at tail of this message. My library has another book with an equivalent title: CN BF367/K8601 Aa Kosslyn, Stephen Michael TI Ghosts in the mind's machine: creating and using images in the brain. CL 249 p. PP New York: W. W. Norton. DA 1983. ------------------- Weekly Column in Washington Post: Science and Man Dec. 28, 1968 Joshua Lederberg Man Can Be Called 'Machine' -- But a Most Complex One .fi It is easy to find deeply ambivalent feelings about science among intellectuals (even including some scientists), in Congress, among alienated youths and among bewildered citizens. We live in a scientific age whose glories and terrors are both credited to science. At this level, we can hardly deny that our ever-growing scientific mastery over the forces of nature imposes an almost unbearable responsibility on political authority and on a democratic electorate to learn about, think about, plan for and use these forces for real human benefit. In this climate, many people have become highly sensitized to more ethereal questions that are raised by the scientific study of man. One such question is the doctrine of mechanism. Dr. D.E. Wooldridge, a well known physicist and systems engineer and a successful industrialist -- formerly president of TRW (Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge) Inc. -- has written several excellent syntheses of present day thought in biology. His latest work, "Mechanical Man -- the Physical Basis of Intelligent Life," concludes "that a single body of natural laws operating on a single set of material particles completely accounts for the origin and properties of living organisms. Accordingly, man is essentially no more than a complex machine." A few eccentrics aside, the whole community of contemporary science shares the view that the same laws of nature apply to nonliving and living matter alike. All of us who investigate the chemistry and physics of living organisms pursue our work as if organisms were complex machines, and we find man to exhibit no tissues or functions that would except him from this way of analyzing human nature. Nevertheless, we are or should be careful to state just what we mean before we assert that "man is a machine," and much more so before using the phrase "merely a machine." The statement that man is "a mere machine," or a mere anything, is a needless irritant to precise communication between scientists and laymen. (We might better proclaim that "man is merely the most complex product of organic evolution on earth, the only organism whose intelligence has evolved to the point that his culture far transcends his biological endowment.") The "mere machine" phrase is usually a retort to the claim that there are mysteries of human nature that are, in principle, beyond the reach of scientific investigation. Scientists would do better to save their breath quarreling about what they can analyze in principle; in their own work, they are mercilessly pragmatic about confining their conclusions to what they can examine in practice. There are, in fact, theoretical limits to scientific analysis that may justify men in repudiating Dr. Wooldridge's assertion that "the concept of the machine-like nature of man is incompatible with a long-cherished belief in human uniqueness." There is nothing "mere" about a machine as complex as a man; the word "machine" is just a manner of speaking about the scientist's faith in a universe ordered by natural law. That faith was expressed most eloquently by the French philosopher the Marquis de Laplace, who averred that, given complete knowledge of the universe at one instant, the scientist could in principle compute all of its future states in infinite detail. In practice, we must now remind ourselves, the scientist and his computers are machines that occupy space and consume energy. Dr. Rolf Landauer of IBM has pointed out that the process of calculation itself soon reaches fundamental limits. If the whole visible universe were one gigantic computer, made of components at the theoretical lower limit of size and energy consumption, it would still be insufficient for some problems that are soluble "in principle." Far short of the complexity represented by a human being, some mere machines called computers nevertheless have already reached the point where their actual behavior is predictable only to a rough approximation, and we must be careful to program internal checks to detect when these highly individualized robots deviate from their intended instructions. --- _900428 Note La Mettrie (1709-1751), L'homme machine, 1748 ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:12:19 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Michael R. Williams" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Memories of ENIAC and "computers." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <503351726737.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.023 Sender: "Michael R. Williams" Subject: Re: CM> Memories of ENIAC and "computers." At 11:44 PM 7/5/96 -0700, you wrote: >[Moderator's note: here is a transcript of an email discussion I had with >William A. Reitwiesner, whose mother worked first as a human "computer" >then on ENIAC, witnessing the transition from human computers to digital >computers (the word "computer" used to describe a human job.) Hopefully >she too will send us a description of her experience. If readers will look in the Annals of the History of Computing, Vol. 18, Num. 1, (First issue of 1996) they will find a good description of the ENIAC and the people that created it (good early biographies of J. Presper Eckert and John Mauchly) and other ENIAC related items. If they will wait about 2 weeks, they can look in Annals Vol 18, Number 3 (due in the mail soon) and there will be a very good description of the women who worked on ENIAC -- including a lot of materail by Home' Reitwiesner -- put together by Barkley Fritz (a supervisor of ENIAC) who knew and worked with all these women. This issue of Annals is a special issue about "women in computing" and will be of interest to anyone who wants to know something of the human side of the subject. Mike Williams --------------------------------------------------- Dr. Michael R. Williams Editor-in-Chief, Annals of the History of Computing Department of Computer Science University of Calgary Calgary, Alberta Canada T2N 1N4 Ph: (403) 220-6781 Fax: (403) 284-4707 email: williams@cpsc.ucalgary.ca ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:17:38 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Robert H'obbes' Zakon" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Poitner to Net Timeline X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <69923326953.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.020 Sender: "Robert H'obbes' Zakon" Subject: Re: Net Timeline Hobbes' Internet Timeline: http://info.isoc.org/guest/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:21:04 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Ronda Hauben To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Mailing lists & earliest copies of Human-Nets X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1487948913263.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.026 Sender: Ronda Hauben Subject: Re: CM> Mailing lists & earliest copies of Human-Nets On Wed, 26 Jun 1996 nmk@mail.telepac.pt wrote: > > Sender: nmk@mail.telepac.pt > Subject: Mailing lists & mail problem? > > [~snip~] > > Introduction & Question: I'm working (for my dissertation degree in > Sociology) on the dynamics of the mailing lists, and am particularly > interested in the communication and relationships process, so if you think > of interest to debate such a topic I'd like to know your opinions and > experiences about the possible categorization of mailing lists, in what > ways can we speek about community, and, in an historical perspective, what > were the first mailing lists like. > > manuela > Manuel, Good to see that you are working on Mailing lists and the dynamics and value of them. I have begun to do some work on the early mailing lists that were on Usenet in 1981-82 and have a draft paper folks may be interested in called "Hello Usenet: Broadsides of Our Day" I began to look at the discussion on some of the early newsgroups and mailing lists like sf-lovers and FA.space and found it to be broad ranging and valuable. I am also interested in more information about early mailing lists and am particularly interested in knowing if anyone has access to the earliest Human-Nets Mailing Lists so would appreciate any leads anyone may have about when Human-Nets began and if the first year or two are available anywhere. > [Moderator: The "historical perspective" is a good subject. Does anyone > know what was the first mailing list? I hear it might have been SF-LOVERS > (science-fiction lovers) on ARPANET. Is this true? Did you participate?] Was Human-Nets one of the first mailing lists? Ronda ronda@columbia.edu au329@cleveland.freenet.edu -------------------- Netizens: On the History and Impact B of Usenet and the Internet http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:23:42 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Coop To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <599619747421.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.022 Sender: Coop Subject: Re: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." At 11:32 PM 7/5/96 -0700, Hari Kunzru wrote: >. . ., though I have a vague memory that the phrase might have been >coined by an Oxford philosopher writing a critique of Descartes slightly >earlier than Koestler's book. > I think the philosopher you have in mind is Gilbert Ryle. Ryle was perhaps one of the most interesting of the Oxford types- writing predominately in response to issues raised by the perennial "mind-body" problem. His views- although anti-cognitivist- revealed a profound sympathy for Cartesian reasoning. If your interested, pick up a copy of: Ryle, G. (1949). The concept of mind. London: Hutchinson & Company. An example of his anti-cognitivist line of thinking follows: According to the legend, whenever an agent does anything intelligently, his act is preceded and steered by another internal act of considering a regulative proposition appropriate to his practical problem. [...] Must we then say that for the hero's reflections how to act to be intelligent he must first reflect how best to reflect how to act? The endlessness of this implied regress shows that the application of the appropriateness does not entail the occurrence of a process of considering this criterion. (from p.31 of the above) Randolph Cooper ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:26:43 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Laurence I. Press" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Hacker 1 Conference. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1852948314601.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836925384.021 > Larry -- assuming you went to Hackers 1, could you send the list a > description of what you saw/what it was like? David, My impressions/insights are not all that strong. (I only went to one other Hacker's conf, so I guess it did not seem so important to me). I recall that Lee Flesenstein moderated a "random access" session, a la the Homebrew Computer Club. I recall that several Apple folks with low serial numbers were there -- including Steve Wosniak. I think Dan Bricklin from Visicalc was also. Stewart Brand of Whole Earth Catalog was the organizer. It was held at a sort of summer camp, and we slept in bunk beds. My roomie was Bob Albrecht of People's Computer Company. Lots of M&Ms and soft drinks, and little sleep. It says something that I recall more the form than the substance. Was anyone else from the list there? The T-shirt was designed by Scott Kim, and I will take a snapshot of it. (should we wear the t-shirts in the photos)? I also came across a t-shirt from the Southern California Computer Society, which predated Homebrew (by a little), and had a short, stormy history. I also had one from the first INET conference, but cannot seem to find it. (I assume that only "first" t-shirts are worthy of submission). Lar ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:11:15 -0700 Reply-To: mwl4@psu.edu Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: mwl4@psu.edu (Mark Laskowski) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <917384911474.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836942527.010 Sender: mwl4@psu.edu (Mark Laskowski) Subject: Re: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." Mr. Bennahum, Moderator: There's a thread on the origins of the phrase "ghost in the machine". What I know about computers, you could fit on the head of a pin. But the origins of words and phrases intrigues me. I couldn't shake the feeling that Nabokov had coined or used heavily the phrase in question. But I wasn't sure, so I called my neighbor, Benjamin Pryor, into the thread. Both Peter Martin and Hari Kunzru were on the right track. The former with the idea that there was a connection to Ryle and the latter with his idea that the phrase comes from a book criticizing Descartes. Here's what Ben has to say: Mark: Here's your answer: Gilbert Ryle coined the phrase in his 1949 _The Concept of Mind_. His index has 17 references to the phrase. Here's the first in which he introduces it: "...I shall often speak [of the official theory of the relation between the mind and the body] with deliberate abusiveness, as 'the dogma of the Ghost in the Machine'. I hope to prove that it is entirely false, and false not in detail but in principle....It represents the facts of mental life as if they belonged to one logical type or category...when they actually belong to another." There you have it. I know of no earlier reference to the phrase, and it is not at all a perversion of 'deus ex machina'. Now the Nabakov connection may not be innacurate, but if he said it he probably said it in "Pale Fire" somewhere, and that wasn't written until after '49.....I THINK. I can't find my copy of pale fire. I can't find any Nabakov, for that matter. But I'll put my money on Ryle as the origin of the phrase. Ryle, The Concept of Mind (Barnes and Noble, 1949). See ya. Mark Laskowski Assitant Director of Station Development Penn State Public Broadcasting 814.863.2606 voice 814.865.3145 fax ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:28:16 -0700 Reply-To: lpress@ISI.EDU Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Laurence I. Press" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Government/Net article X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1159921215496.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836946711.000 Sender: "Laurence I. Press" Subject: Government/Net article Folks, I just drafted a column for CACM on the role of the government in network development. It summarizes the history of the SAGE, arpanet, csnet, nsfnet, and NSF connectivity projects, and their payoffs. If anyone would be willing to give me feedback before I send it in (soon), let me know and I will email you a copy. Lar ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:41:44 -0700 Reply-To: capek@WATSON.IBM.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: (Peter Capek) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> An earlier "news group" ? X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <12233227303.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.000 Sender: (Peter Capek) Subject: An earlier "news group" ? For the record, on May 2, 1977, I created what we would today call a moderated newsgroup (digest) on the IBM internal network. (This is quite a bit earlier than any of the other similar activities for which I've seen dates.) Its topic area was the use and enhancement of VM/370, a popular interactive operating system of the time. In what is perhaps the reverse of the usual style for doing this, I wrote some, and solicited others, of the items in the first issue, sort of to get the ball rolling, and sent it to about 20-30 people. By the end of the week, the word had spread and I had a distribution list of over 100, and submissions/contributions full to overflowing. Various efforts to judge the readership were not very conclusive, but it seems fairly clear that within a year it was in excess of 10,000 readers, with at least a quarter of them outside North America. This activity went on for about 6 years, until the need for it had been largely assumed by unmoderated conferences using something like "mailer" technology. One key distinction from most of today's conferences, including the moderated ones (no slight intended to the present venue!) was that I decided from the outset that it would be best to "edit" fairly strongly the content. I felt this was appropriate for the following reasons: -- Because by editing the writing, information could be conveyed more accurately, less ambiguously, and more clearly. Further, I felt that one should plan for success, and if the venture was successful, my time spent editing would save the time of many readers. -- Because by editing the content, the reliability of the information presented would be higher, and the effort would create a trusted source, making it more valuable to the readers than if every submission were distributed. In fact, it was necessary only fairly rarely to absolutely refuse to publish something. -- Because by editing the style, the vagaries for the reader of reading material written by many different writers (including many whose native language was not English) would be minimimized, if not eliminated. Of course, an important effect of this editing and digesting process was that significant time could elapse until the next "issue", so that immediacy was sacrificed. ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:55:18 -0700 Reply-To: rhallock@micron.net Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: rhallock@micron.net (rhallock) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> History of FTP? X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <2103008763117.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 836947714.000 Sender: rhallock@micron.net (rhallock) Subject: History of FTP? I'm taking a class thru' Virutal University on FTP and Telnet. My classmates and I have tracked FTP down to M.I.T in '71. Does anyone have anymore information than that--like the specific who, when, where, etc. Thanks! Rina Hallock Rina Hallock Caldwell, ID 83605 rhallock@micron.net "Our task is to provide an education for the kinds of kids we have, not the kinds of kids we used to have, or want to have, or the kids that exist in our dreams." --K.P. Gerlack ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 13:09:09 -0700 Reply-To: cowan@locke.ccil.org Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: John Cowan To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <535749544948.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.002 Sender: John Cowan Subject: Re: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." Peter Martin wrote: > The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations gives "The dogma of the Ghost in the > machine." from *The Concept of Mind" by Gilbert Ryle. > > Ryle was (1900-1976) an English philosopher. Since the word "dogma" turns > up in the quote, and since he capitalized Ghost, I suspect he was much more > likely to be talking about Christianity than about computers. > > But short of reading Ryle's book, I can't be sure. And I don't think I'll > read the book, at least not today; I have only the vaguest recollection of > Ryle's role in 20th century philosophy, only recall from long-gone undergrad > days that he was difficult. > > Maybe the reference is not the Holy Spirit. Maybe it's the human soul? Ryle was sardonically referring to Cartesian dualism, a doctrine of Descartes whereby the body and the mind (more reasonable translation of \`esprit in this context) are separate entities that interact only through a single point, the apparently-non-functional pineal gland. (Hail Eris!) The "ghost", therefore, is the mind, apparently free, and the "machine" is the body, deterministically obeying the laws of nature. ObCompHist: One of my back-burner projects is constructing a portable simulator (in C) for the IBM 1620. Persons with information not contained in Basic Programming Concepts and the IBM 1620 Computer, which is my bible for this project, are urged to contact me at the address below. In addition, any actual running (so to speak) software for the 1620 that can be released under Copyleft or to the public domain would be greatly appreciated. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:02:30 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: deyoung@rpcp.mit.edu (Tice DeYoung) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Explanation of term "Bitways." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1184975312549.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.014 Sender: deyoung@rpcp.mit.edu (Tice DeYoung) Subject: ORIGIN OF TERM "BITWAYS" The term 'bitways' arose during an ARPA-Computings Systems Technology Office during Stephen Squires tenure as Director of that office. ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:11:37 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Peter H. Salus" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <84358139696.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.018 Sender: "Peter H. Salus" Subject: Re: CM> Origins of the word "ghost in the machine." The very last line of Lederberg's essay introduces LaMettrie, in whom I have long had an interest. LaMettrie was (with Condillac) one of the French disciples of Locke and Hume. He is, in some sense, the first behaviorist, perhaps better ``physicalist.'' Berlin noted that ``La Mettrie conceives the true philosopher as a kind of engineer who can take to pieces the apparatus that is the human mind.'' Born in 1709, Julien Offray de la Mettrie was a trained physician patronized by Fredrick the Great of Prussia (who wrote the eloge on La Mettrie's death at 41). La Mettrie's ``L'homme Machine'' appeared in Leiden in 1748. The first English edition appeared in 1749. The second, 1750. A more recent translation appeared in 1912. Counter essays appeared almost immediately (Frantzen's Denial of Man a Machine [Leipzig 1749], Tralles' On Man's Machine and Soul [Leipzig 1749], Hollmann's Refutation... [Berlin 1750]). That this ``controversy'' did not just go away until Ryle and Koestler can be seen from Rignano's Man not a Machine (London, 1926) and the response to it by none other than Joseph Needham, Man a Machine: In answer to a romantical and unscientific treatise written by Sig. Eugenio Rignano... (New York 1928). Not wanting to excruciate this list, I'll end this here with a brief line from La Mettrie: ``Man is a machine so compounded that it is at first impossible to form a clear idea of it... [I]t is only a posteriori or by seeking to unravel the soul, as it were, via the organs of the body, that one can ... attain to the highest degree of probability possible on this topic [human nature itself].'' Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- Peter H. Salus #3303 4 Longfellow Place Boston, MA 02114 peter@pedant.com +1 617 723 3092 ----------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:12:47 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: (Peter Capek) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> First Hackers Conference, on PBS. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1999876983166.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.025 Sender: (Peter Capek) Subject: First Hackers Conference There was a documentary made about the first Hackers' conference. It was shown on Public TV shortly thereafter. I don't recall the name, but it might still be accessible through PBS. Peter Capek ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:14:24 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Nelson Winkless To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> First PC, MITS, Altair, 1995 reunion. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1884888869263.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.022 Sender: Nelson Winkless Subject: CM: Something to stir other recollections The following item (slightly edited) was published in The ABQ Correspondent a few months ago, after the MITS reunion. Maybe it will bring some other thoughts to mind among readers of the CM posts. The subject of the third paragraph seems to stir passions, while reinforcing the thesis that "History is just people doing things." THE REUNION As planned, a passel of oldtimers gathered in Albuquerque in June [1995] to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the first personal computer, produced here by a company oddly called MITS. Most of the key people were among the host, as they were at the 10th anniversary. Ed Roberts (the Fearless Leader of MITS, who came up with the Altair computer), Eddie Currie (Ed's friend and lieutenant, still a figure in the industry), Paul Allen (partner in Microsoft), and David Bunnell (who has published a series of blockbuster computer magazines -- Personal Computing, PC Magazine, PC WORLD, MAC WORLD, and now New Media) were there, but Bill Gates didn't make it. David thought Bill had written Currie a note saying he'd be glad to see folks...but Ed Roberts is still mad at him, and he didn't want to spend an uncomfortable evening with him. "Ed *is* still mad, isn't he?" I said. "Oh yes!" said David. (Ed had argued in court that the Microsoft software was developed as work-for-hire while the fellows were employed by MITS. Bill and Paul argued that Microsoft was licensing the work product to MITS. Bill and Paul won...and this is being typed on a computer using Microsoft DOS and Windows, not MITS DOS and Windows.) David made a point worth remembering: commentators often discount the MITS role in creating the personal computer, pointing to the years of visionary work done at PARC, Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center. "The fact is, " said David, "we didn't know anything about that. We just hauled off and made a computer that an ordinary person could buy and use. It seems to me that one absolutely essential feature of a personal computer is that a person is able to get one. MITS produced the first computer an ordinary person could buy." Dar Scott was startled to find a display of 18-20 year old MITS artifacts that included a board he'd designed...and was even more excited to see an operating computer that contained another of those boards...still chugging away, with about 20kb of RAM and a mass memory cassette holding 72kb. Wow. One looks forward to 2005. --Nels Winkless ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nelson Winkless Email: correspo@swcp.com ABQ Communications Corporation Voice: 505-897-0822 P.O. Box 1432 Fax: 505-898-6525 Corrales NM 87048 USA Website: http://www.swcp.com/correspo ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: rab@WELL.COM To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Hacker 1 Conference. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1098908114337.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.021 Sender: rab@well.com Subject: Re: CM> Hacker 1 Conference. Regarding the original Hackers conference (it wasn't called "1" as we didn't add the numbers until the idea of reviving the conference got serious), a very nice 1-hour PBS special was made of it; I have a U-Matic copy of this (given to me by Fabrice Florin, who created it) and assuming the very likely permission from him I'm sure copies can be made available. The shirts were in fact designed by Scott Kim, and he continued to do them for several more years, until the conference chair decided to start doing the designs himself..... The Hackers 10 shirt was basically an embroidered reprise of the original shirt also. I have lots and lots of lore to share about the Hackers conferences. Even though I wasn't at the original, I can share a lot of info about that one as well from what I picked up from people who were there. E.g., it was held in Marin at some old buildings that used to belong to the Army, and there was a mad scramble at one point to try to find a generator when the power went out during a storm. And so on. [Moderator: Maybe you could begin by explaning what the point of the first conference was, who organized it, and what happened.] -- Robert Bickford "A Hacker is any person who derives joy from rab@well.com discovering ways to circumvent limitations." rab'86 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "I recognize that a class of criminals and juvenile delinquents has taken to calling themselves 'hackers', but I consider them irrelevant to the true meaning of the word; just as the Mafia calls themselves 'businessmen' but nobody pays that fact any attention." rab'90 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:16:45 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: darrahs@BUCKS.EDU (SUSAN DARRAH) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Lists, WINE...WINOS? X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1342398276404.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837007733.020 Sender: darrahs@bucks.edu (SUSAN DARRAH) Subject: WINE...WINOS? I just have to ask one question: what was (is?) discussed on the list WINE (or is it WINOS?) -- the merits of California Chardonnay v. French Chablis? Or what? And, well, maybe I have more than one question. Who started the list? Why? Who joined? What really was discussed? What year was it started? Was it really started before S-F Lovers? What was the *first* list? This, if I can take a little more time, leads me to a more general question about lists: how soon after lists became more common did subscribers begin to think that email was different from other forms of written communication, with its own developing protocol/etiquette? Thanks, Susan Darrah darrahs@bucks.edu Writing Center Director Bucks County Community College Newtown, PA 18926 ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:05:19 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "Woody Franke" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> IBM accounting machines, FARGO. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <352481416118.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837097050.000 Sender: "Woody Franke" Subject: cpsr-history posting My programming experience began in 1964 on what was then called "unit record" equipment. Remember the IBM 402 and 407 accounting machines? Or the card sorters, 80-80 gang punch, and collators? I began programming the IBM 1401 then as well. Does anyone remember what the acronym FARGO stood for? I wrote code in it as well as Autocoder and Easycoder, a similar language for the Honeywell 200. In those days T-shirts were Fruit-of-the-Loom underwear; not advertising billboards. Woody Franke ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:10:53 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: David Fiedler To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Usenet ASCII Maps X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1059120391452.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837094409.011 Sender: David Fiedler Subject: Usenet ASCII Maps My first Unix machine was connected to Usenet via UUCP in 1983 or so. At that time, topology maps were posted as ASCII, with lines drawn between computers to indicate connections. Would anyone out there have a copy of one of those maps for reminiscence purposes, especially if it has the node "infopro" on it? Thanks in advance. -- David Fiedler, InfoBahn Warrior Editor-in-Chief, Web Developer Magazine PO Box 220, Rescue CA 95672 Phone: 916/677-5870 david@webdeveloper.com <--> http://www.webdeveloper.com/ ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 23:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: rab@well.com (Bob Bickford) To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Hacker 1 Conference. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <379323427623.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837211171.005 Sender: rab@well.com (Bob Bickford) Subject: Re: CM> Hacker 1 Conference. >[Moderator: Maybe you could begin by explaning what the point of the first >conference was, who organized it, and what happened.] An excellent suggestion! The nice folks at the Point Foundation and Whole Earth Review got very interested in the collection of personalities presented in Steven Levy's book _Hackers: The Heroes of the Computer Revolution_. The way that Matthew McClure once described it to me, they wanted to "get these folks together for a weekend and see what happened". While there were many folks involved in organizing the event, other than Matthew the only names that I am certain of are Levi Thomas, who was working for Whole Earth at the time, and Lee Felsenstein: I know that both helped organize the event. We would do well to get Matthew on this list, if he's willing (mmc@well.com) or of course one of the others, for a more first-person account. Beyond just bringing together a couple hundred very smart people for a weekend and then standing back and watching ;-) I don't think that the Point / Whole Earth people had any "point" in mind. I frequently space on the name of the location, but assuming I'm not doing that now, it was Fort Baker. In any case, I know *where* it was: inside the GGNRA in southern Marin County (CA). One of the neater pictures that I saw of the conference was of the people setting up the chow line on some tables outdoors; I believe the building in the background of that picture was one of the old Army barracks. One of the cooler things done as part of the conference itself was this multi-player "PONG" game setup where the paddles were "summed". A brief shot of this made it into the PBS video that Fabrice created (which I mentioned in my previous email). Beyond that, and the power outage followed by a frantic search for a generator which I already mentioned, it seems to me that everything else of interest was various conversations that were repeated to me, and I'm realizing now that those would be much better gotten from first-person memories rather than mine. So perhaps I have less to contribute about the first conference than I thought....... -- Robert Bickford rab@well.com http://www.well.com/user/rab/ ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 23:15:18 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: John Oliver To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Wayne Green, Byte, Kilobyte, and Kilobaud X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1488642021117.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837211171.010 Sender: John Oliver Subject: Wayne Green, Byte, Kilobyte, and Kilobaud In recent years, as histories of the early days of personal computing have been presented in various magazines, I have watched in vain for any mention of Wayne Green. My memory is not precise but I recall the advent of Kilobaud ... for some time my preferred info source (until replaced in my heart by Creative Computing). I vaugely recall that Wanye had been associated in some fashion with the creation of Byte, but separated from Byte for some reason, and (after being denied the use of "Kilobyte") started Kilobaud. This is probably all muddled ... can someone contribute more info? -- John Oliver http://www.astro.ufl.edu/~oliver ... keeper of the [Netscape Navigator] UFAQ http://www.astro.ufl.edu/~oliver/faq/ ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:03:35 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Home Reitwiesner To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Pronunciation of ENIAC X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <737366896813.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837369027.012 Sender: Home Reitwiesner Subject: Pronunciation of ENIAC When I went to the 50th anniversary of ENIAC in Philadelphia in February 1996, I was surprised by the pronunciation of the name ENIAC - they said it as if the E was the E in DENY. Those of us who worked on ENIAC almost 50 years ago said it with the E as in ENJOY. I asked Kay (McNulty), the widow of John Mauchley, and she was as confused as I. Home McAllister Reitwiesner (hreitwie@capaccess.org) ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:11:27 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Ersatzzz@aol.com To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of word "vaporware." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <888053043287.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837369027.013 Sender: Ersatzzz@aol.com Subject: VaporWHERE? I'm just starting to research an article for a New York weekly about the history and practice of vaporware. I suspect it also might be a interesting topic of discussion for the (dis)assembled multitudes here on CommMem. Clearly, the tactic of announcing a non-existant product (or armament, for that matter) to either discourage the competition, or force them to divert precious resources toward an unproductive goal, is not an invention of the computer industry. I'm interested, though, both in early examples of vaporware, as well as more recent examples. Generally, it seems Microsoft is often the company pointed to as a repeat offender in this area, but this is obv. an industry-wide problem. Sam Pratt (Esquire magazine, et al.) ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:06:07 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Frank McConnell To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Wayne Green, Byte, Kilobyte, and Kilobaud X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1318629074766.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.021 Status: RO Sender: Frank McConnell Subject: Re: CM> Wayne Green, Byte, Kilobyte, and Kilobaud John Oliver asked about the beginnings of Kilobaud. I wasn't there, but below is the story I recall being told (copied from an article I posted to alt.folklore.computers a couple of weeks ago). Corrections would of course be welcome. Keith Morgan - Imonics Corporation wrote: >[...] aax@ix.netcom.com(ANDREW GRYGUS ) writes: >> If I recall correctly, it was originally named "Kilobyte", the result >> of a bitter divorce in which the "other half" kept Byte magazine. >> Cooler heads prevailed and the name was changed. > >Nope, both Byte & Kilobyte were in publication at the same time. The name was >changed after Byte's lawyers started threatening trademark violation lawsuits, >saying Kilobyte was a bit too close to Byte. As I recall, the story went something like this: Wayne Green started Byte, but arranged that his wife Virginia owned it in order to reduce the tax liability. They divorced; she kept the magazine and seemed to be making a go of it. Wayne was not happy about this, and started soliciting for his new magazine "Kilobyte". Byte ran a filler comic with this title to establish the name as their trademark. (The comic appeared as Kil O'Byte in the table of contents but had the title KILOBYTE(TM), started in the October 1976 issue on page 106, and continued into at least the first two issues of 1977 -- it was a pun-filled Star Trek parody, among other things, and I simply don't have the stomach to look further.) And when Wayne's new magazine appeared, it was with the title "Kilobaud" and cover date January 1977. -Frank McConnell ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:15:28 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Carl Ellison To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Poitner to Net Timeline, correction. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1193996938325.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.027 Status: RO Sender: Carl Ellison Subject: Re: CM> Poitner to Net Timeline At 11:16 PM 7/8/96 -0700, Robert H'obbes' Zakon wrote: > >Sender: "Robert H'obbes' Zakon" >Subject: Re: Net Timeline > >Hobbes' Internet Timeline: > http://info.isoc.org/guest/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html Good stuff. I have a correction, however. Our node at the U of Utah, when it first came up on the net, was running a DEC 10 system prior to TENEX. I forget the name of the OS, but it was DEC's plain vanilla PDP-10 time sharing OS, as modified by us. We did network code development on that system. I don't believe we got a copy of TENEX before 1971. [My piece of that network code on the original PDP-10 system was the interprocess communication mechanism and pseudo-ttys.] - Carl +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Carl M. Ellison cme@cybercash.com http://www.clark.net/pub/cme | |CyberCash, Inc., Suite 430 http://www.cybercash.com/ | |2100 Reston Parkway PGP 2.6.2: 61E2DE7FCB9D7984E9C8048BA63221A2 | |Reston, VA 22091 Tel: (703) 620-4200 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:28:05 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Richard Brodie To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of word "vaporware", Esther Dyson? X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <7535903285.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.028 Status: RO Sender: Richard Brodie Subject: RE: CM> Origins of word "vaporware." I believe "vaporware" was coined by Esther Dyson in her industry newsletter RELease 1.0 to describe Microsoft Windows, which was announced before a line of code was written and shipped 3 years later (to the day, it was my birthday Nov 10!). Richard Brodie RBrodie@brodietech.com +1.206.688.8600 CEO, Brodie Technology Group, Inc., Bellevue, WA USA http://members.gnn.com/rbrodie Do you know what a "meme" is? http://members.gnn.com/rbrodie/meme.htm ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:31:47 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: "christopher f. chiesa" To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of word "vaporware." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1179407158306.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.032 Status: RO Sender: "christopher f. chiesa" Subject: Re: CM> Origins of word "vaporware." On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 Ersatzzz@aol.com wrote: > I'm just starting to research an article for a New York > weekly about the history and practice of vaporware. > [...] > Microsoft is often the company pointed to as a repeat > offender in this area, but this is obv. an industry-wide > problem. Five to ten years ago, at least in the circles in which _I_ moved, Atari and Digital Equipment Corporation were both frequently cited for repeated "vaporware" announcements... "Cited," meaning that their names came up frequently in the context of frustrated conversations among users anticipating products which never appeared... Chris Chiesa ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:34:04 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: FringeWare News Network To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> producer of the famous Cap'n Crunch whistle? X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1348425200443.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.033 Status: RO Hi...here's a note from FringeWare that might be appropirate for CM.... --A.J. Wright//meds002@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sent from: boris@well.com (Boris Groendahl) Hi, I hope this query will find its way into the FringeWare mailing list. I luckily purchased one of the famous Cap'n Crunch whistles for an exhibition about hacker culture in the museum I am working for. Now I have to write an object description for this whistle. The description of its alternative functionality is quite well documented. But there is still a blank field on my card: the field where producer, location of the producer, year of production of the described item have to be filled in. Quaker Oats, the producer of Cap'n Crunch cereals, proved extremely uncooperative on this issue. Their PR manager told me he didn't want to stir this thing up, given the criticism they received back in the seventies. I don't buy they received any criticism for that reason, but anyway. Who produced this whistle? Any ideas? TIA, Boris. -+----+------------------- Boris Groendahl -----+----+-+------++----- Texte Und Konzepte Fuer Medien -+------------------------ boris@well.com ---------------------+---- voice +49-30-68 83 43 58 -----+-------------------- facsimile +49-30-68 83 43 57 ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:24:37 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: John Clark To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Origins of word "vaporware." X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <1222672853877.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.034 Status: RO Sender: John Clark Subject: Re: CM> Origins of word "vaporware." On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 Ersatzzz@aol.com wrote: > I'm interested, > though, both in early examples of vaporware, as > well as more recent examples. I've worked in telecomm startup's my whole career. In this business, until recently, you had three clients, The Telephone Co., Banks and the Gov. so there's lots of room for deception. The usual grand stunt I've seen pulled, is the affair, in which boxes are built with blinking lights, and passed off as working product. This is common practice, mostly the software works (sort of) but the hardware doesn't, so you get another platform (like a PC) run the target code on it, and use a carefully hidden connector to do the switcheroo. The cool product gos on top of the display and the PC is under the table, or in a back room somewhere. Once i saw this done with a cool ISDN video phone that was basically brain dead. The real engine was a haywire board inside a monster PC. The thing was so hot you could fry an egg on it! But no one ever looked under the table and the trade show was a big success. In another life i saw a small company saved by giving a realistic demo of a sophisticated data link protocol, with real end user equipment that actually required the protocol to operate. The whole thing was a complete hoax, but the investors bought into it, and the company is still in business today. P.S. The data link protocol, finally, really did get developed and is a standard and everything, can anyone guess? >Generally, it seems Microsoft is often the company pointed to as a >repeat offender in this area, Jonny come lately's if you ask me. > but this is obv. an industry-wide > problem. I'm not sure it's a problem. Look, what we have here is a very innovative industry. We move very fast and thats how we stay ahead. Sometimes its necessary, and desirable to release things prematurely to see if there is really a market. ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:20:20 -0700 Reply-To: cpsr-history@Sunnyside.COM Originator: cpsr-history@cpsr.org Sender: listserv-reply-errors@Sunnyside.COM Precedence: bulk From: Nelson Winkless To: "Multiple recipients of list cpsr-history@cpsr.org" Subject: CM> Wayne Green, Byte, Kilobyte, and Kilobaud. X-Listprocessor-Version: 9.1 -- List Server by Sunnyside Computing, Inc. X-Comment: Discussion of history of computing X-Info: For listserv info write to listserv@cpsr.org with message HELP X-Message-Id: <911426034619.LTK.013@cpsr.org> X-UIDL: 837505885.035 Status: RO Sender: Nelson Winkless Subject: Re: Wayne Green, Byte, Kilobyte, and Kilobaud John Oliver's curiosity about the absence of Wayne Greene (gee, I automatically added an "e" after the "n," and maybe that's right) from the list matches my own. I haven't communicated with Wayne in at least ten years, and have no idea what, if anything, he's up to. With luck, our moderator will drop or cut this post if more reliable information comes in, but as I understand it from stories that came to me casually... Wayne was big on ham radio, and for some years produced a magazine for radio amateurs, becoming well established as a publisher. Carl Helmers was an early personal computer fancier who, in 1975, with the advent of the MITS Altair, produced a technical newsletter for the new field of personal computers. The newsletter reportedly developed a following, and it seemed to hold promise as the basis for a full-fledged magazine. Somehow, Carl and Wayne got together to create the magazine from the newsletter, and BYTE came upon the scene with Carl as editor. (Don't know whether this preceeded or followed David Ahl's CREATIVE COMPUTING...which was originally based on the small DEC PDP systems, not yet quite "personal computers," and don't know whether the BYTE name was already established with the newslatter, or came with the magazine.) BYTE was a hot property, and grew rapidly. By some time in 1976, things had grown awkward in the little publishing family there in Peterborough, New Hampshire, and there was a great out between Wayne and Carl. Somehow, Wayne was out of BYTE, but his wife Virginia was the new publisher, and Carl remained editor. Not to take this lying down, Wayne began to publish a competitive magazine, called KILOBYTE, nominally a thousand times better than BYTE. That caused a major hassle, and Wayne was prevented from using the name, so he called tha magazine KILOBAUD. David Bunnell commented once that it must be fun to stand around the lobby of the post office in little Peterborough, watching the warring factions confront each other as they came in to pick up the mail. KILOBAUD stayed in publication for some years, but faded as BYTE flourished, and became part of the McGraw Hill publishing empire. (I've more than once heard BYTE described as the best technical journal ever published.) Wayne did a series of magazines of various kinds, all, I think, in that odd four-columns-per-page format to which he was attached, believing studies that said the narrow columns had been proved easiest to read. His contribution to popular technology has been significant and colorful. One story said that when he'd set up KILOBYTE, he promoted the new venture by running without charge all the of the ads that had run in the most recent issue of BYTE, hoping to win the hearts and business of those advertisers. Unluckily, the business was even then changing so fast that much of the information in the ads was incorrect, just two months later, and the advertisers had to straighten out a lot of confusion. Some were indignant, and complained to Wayne. To make them feel better (the unconfirmed story goes), he gave them another freebie, running the ads without charge again, and compounding the confusion mightily. Wayne's ham radio activities made him a celebrity worldwide in amateur radio circles, and last time we communicated, he was traveling around China, hobnobbing with high level folks who happened also to be hams. Again, I'd have to dig through old notebooks and artefacts to find the names of people who should also be identified here. They're on the tip of my tongue, but... --Nels Winkless ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nelson Winkless Email: correspo@swcp.com ABQ Communications Corporation Voice: 505-897-0822 P.O. Box 1432 Fax: 505-898-6525 Corrales NM 87048 USA Website: http://www.swcp.com/correspo ______________________________________________________________________ Posted by David S. Bennahum (davidsol@panix.com) Moderator: Community Memory http://www.reach.com/matrix/community-memory.html A CPSR Project -- http://www.cpsr.org -- cpsr@cpsr.org Materials may be reposted in their *entirety* for non-commercial use. Want to receive the day's postings bundled together into one message? It's easy. Send a note to listserv@cpsr.org that reads: SET CPSR-HISTORY MAIL DIGEST ______________________________________________________________________