From opie@fine-print.com Wed Mar 29 11:55:50 1995 Path: panix!opie.dialup.access.net!user From: opie@fine-print.com (Matthew S. 'Opie' Warren) Newsgroups: panix.questions Subject: Re: Newsgroup replies in email Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:42:17 -0500 Organization: Mail Forwarding Department, Committee for Fine Print Lines: 105 Message-ID: References: <3lap6j$g76@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.7.7.122 X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+ Hi. In article <3lap6j$g76@panix.com>, annelomb@panix.com (Anne) wrote: >When someone replies in email to one of my newsgroup postings, >how do I know whether this is a private reply, or a cc of their >newsgroup follow-up? > >I've been read the riot act a couple of times for replying >publicly to a private post, but when I wrote back asking how >would I know it was private, since the newsgroup was listed in >the header, I received no answer. > >So - How do I know? Short answer: you don't. Mail with the Newsgroups: header may be a courtesy copy (like this one) or it may be an email-only reply. You can get some indication by figuring out what newsreader the person is using >from various headers including Message-ID. Long answer: You're using Pine, right? (Don't use Pine.) Some news/mail combinations, notably those based on 'rn,' include a Newsgroups: header in email-only replies. Other people find this very confusing. For further reference, see my post on the same topic below. -MSW Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:27 -0500 From: opie@fine-print.com (Matthew S. 'Opie' Warren) To: opie@fine-print.com Subject: Re: Responding to Mail/News Newsgroups: panix.questions References: <3l94og$8r5@panix3.panix.com> Organization: Mail Forwarding Department, Committee for Fine Print X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+ X-UIDL: 796406527.000 Hi. In article <3l94og$8r5@panix3.panix.com>, tdonadio@panix.com (Tony Donadio) wrote: >Hi, > > I have been having problems responding to email messages that were >sent to me, and also posted to a newsgroup. I am using pine for my mail >and tin as my default newsreader. > > When I try to respond, pine asks me if I want to follow up to the >newsgroup. This is because Pine is incredibly brain-dead and its developer should be shot. Say you post to a newsgroup: ===== From: tdonadio@panix.com Newsgroups: foo.bar Subject: snozz This is some text. ===== And say I reply via email. Many newsreader/mailer combinations, notably those based on rn, include a Newsgroups: header so you know what newsgroup your article was in. (The guys who wrote rn et al read a lot of news, methinks.) ===== To: tdonadio@panix.com From: opie@fine-print.com Newsgroups: foo.bar Subject: snozz >This is some text. Actually, this reminds me of a painful personal experience that I couldn't bear to post. [...] ===== Now, if this shows up AS EMAIL to pine, and you try to reply, Pine asks you if you want to post, because it assumes the mail was a courtesy copy of a post in the first place. And if you say yes, which lots of Pine users have, my painful personal experience is all over the net. This is a nice idea, but it's wrong. Many mailers put the Newsgroups: header in all first-generation replies to Usenet posts, whether courtesy copies or private replies. I agree with the author of Pine that it shouldn't be this way, but it is, and for now we're stuck with it. Many people have pointed out that this is a bug. The author of Pine doesn't agree. >If I say yes, and compose and send a message, it tells me >that it cannot find any such host as tin, and is unable to do so. This is a bug in the implementation of the mail-to-post gateway described above. Since the whole mail-to-post behavior is a bug, you can consider this a feature. :-) -MSW -- Matthew S. 'Opie' Warren "Nothing happens automatically." opie@fine-print.com +1 (500) for-opie (Mail for PGP) From sn@panix.com Sun Apr 9 15:13:05 1995 Path: panix!not-for-mail From: sn@panix.com (S. Nass/PANIX) Newsgroups: panix.questions Subject: Re: Newsgroup replies in email Date: 7 Apr 1995 19:35:25 -0400 Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3m4i7t$e1v@panix3.panix.com> References: <3ld4vo$ii8@panix.com> <3libvi$3l5@panix3.panix.com> <3liid2$o07@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com In article <3liid2$o07@panix.com> annelomb@panix.com (Anne) writes: >S. Nass/PANIX (sn@panix.com) wrote: >: In article <3ld4vo$ii8@panix.com> annelomb@panix.com (Anne) writes: >: >Yes, Pine does that, Jens, but what *I* don't know is whether I want >: >to reply to the newsgroups as well, or just to the sender of the note >: >Since Pine is so ambiguous about this,.... >: >It sure seems to me there should be a better way of handling this... > >: Yes, avoid Pine, esp. for newsreading. :) >: -S. >: -- > >I don't use Pine for newsreading, Simona, I use tin.... >I use Pine as my mailer...... > >What I am confused about is email.... Say you replied to this note with a >followup to the newsgroup, and cc'd me in email as a courtesy, I'd have no >way, that I know of, to know that your reply was a public one.... or worse, >if you replied to me privately, and I replied back to you publicly.... >that's where I have gotten into hot water. If you are using a normal mailer, even if your reply has a Newsgroups: panix.test header, it is only mailed to the recipient and not posted since news is never invoked. Since Pine pretends to be both a newsreader and a mailer, I don't know if it treats this any differently. Try sending mail to yourself and putting in a bogus Newsgroups: panix.test header and see if it shows up if you want to know for sure. -S. -- Simona Nass Staff Account PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC sn@panix.com From opie@fine-print.com Sun Apr 30 10:10:10 1995 Path: panix!opie.dialup.access.net!user From: opie@fine-print.com (Matthew S. 'Opie' Warren) Newsgroups: panix.questions Subject: Re: Responding to Mail/News Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:17 -0500 Organization: Mail Forwarding Department, Committee for Fine Print Lines: 66 Message-ID: References: <3l94og$8r5@panix3.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.7.7.122 X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+ Hi. In article <3l94og$8r5@panix3.panix.com>, tdonadio@panix.com (Tony Donadio) wrote: >Hi, > > I have been having problems responding to email messages that were >sent to me, and also posted to a newsgroup. I am using pine for my mail >and tin as my default newsreader. > > When I try to respond, pine asks me if I want to follow up to the >newsgroup. This is because Pine is incredibly brain-dead and its developer should be shot. Say you post to a newsgroup: ===== From: tdonadio@panix.com Newsgroup: foo.bar Subject: snozz This is some text. ===== And say I reply via email. Many newsreader/mailer combinations, notably those based on rn, include a Newsgroups: header so you know what newsgroup your article was in. (The guys who wrote rn et al read a lot of news, methinks.) ===== To: tdonadio@panix.com From: opie@fine-print.com Newsgroup: foo.bar Subject: snozz >This is some text. Actually, this reminds me of a painful personal experience that I couldn't bear to post. [...] ===== Now, if this shows up AS EMAIL to pine, and you try to reply, Pine asks you if you want to post, because it assumes the mail was a courtesy copy of a post in the first place. And if you say yes, which lots of Pine users have, my painful personal experience is all over the net. This is a nice idea, but it's wrong. Many mailers put the Newsgroups: header in all first-generation replies to Usenet posts, whether courtesy copies or private replies. I agree with the author of Pine that it shouldn't be this way, but it is, and for now we're stuck with it. Many people have pointed out that this is a bug. The author of Pine doesn't agree. >If I say yes, and compose and send a message, it tells me >that it cannot find any such host as tin, and is unable to do so. This is a bug in the implementation of the mail-to-post gateway described above. Since the whole mail-to-post behavior is a bug, you can consider this a feature. :-) -MSW -- Matthew S. 'Opie' Warren "Nothing happens automatically." opie@fine-print.com +1 (500) for-opie (Mail for PGP)