ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 1291 http://www.s-gabriel.org/1291 ************************************ 17 Sep 1998 From: (Josh Mittleman) Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked for information about Romany names and particularly about the names and . This letter is a brief answer to your question. Before I start, I'd like to clarify the service that the Academy offers. We try to help Societyfolk in choosing and using names that fit the historical cultures they are trying to re-create. Our research can sometimes be used to support submissions to the College of Arms, but that it not our goal and our results are often incompatible with the College's needs. If your main goal is to register a particular name, then we may not be able to help you. We have found very little information about period Romany names. What we've discovered boils down to this: The Romany used at least two names each -- a private name in their own language that was not used outside their community, and a public name in the language of the country where they lived. We have found no evidence at all on Romany private names. We have found a little evidence about their public names, which seem to be typical of the country where they are found. Therefore, the best general advice we can give you is that in public a Romany woman would have used a normal name for the time and place where she lived. We checked the website you used, http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kimberly/medance/names/mednames.html It is not a reliable source for period names. We are familiar with many of the sources that it used, and they are themselves known to be unreliable. They are baby-name books, not scholarly studies of medieval names. Although they include some medieval names, they also include modern inventions, and the derivations are incorrect as often as not. In short, we're afraid that you cannot trust the information on this website to be correct, let alone medieval. As you found, the website lists as a "Basque Gypsy" name meaning "sister", and mentioned meaning "young girl". We could find no support for this derivation. The Basque word for "sister" is and the Romany word is [1, 2]. We checked other sources, and we found no reference to or used as a name. is not listed on the website, and we have never encountered it as a name. If you want a Romany persona, our best suggestion is that you start by deciding where and when your persona lived, and then choose a name appropriate for that time and place. You may find some useful information in one of these websites: Stefan's Florilegium: Gypsy culture http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/Gypsies-msg.html _The Patrin Journal_ timeline of Gypsy history. http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/timeline.htm We can't vouch absolutely for the accuracy of the information on either site, but we have found Stefan's collection pretty reliable, and the timeline on the Patrin site seems to agree with other sources. Once you settle on a time and place to set your persona, we'd be happy to help you choose an appropriate name. I hope this brief letter has been useful. Please write us again if you have any questions. I was assisted in researching and writing this letter by Talan Gwynek and Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn. For the Academy, Arval Benicoeur 17 Sep 1998 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - References [1] "Lexico/ts de Joan-France/s Blanc" (WWW: privately published, accessed 17 Sept 1998). http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2057/dicolist.html [2] "Romany Dictionary", compiled by Angel Ba'Tal Libal and Will Strain (WWW: privately published, updated 1-11-97, accessed 17 Sept 1998). http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3698/rom.htm - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -