ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 1355 http://www.s-gabriel.org/1355 ************************************ 12 Nov 1998 From: (Josh Mittleman) Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked for information about the name . This letter is a brief answer to your question. If your aim is to find documentation for a name so that you can register it with the SCA College of Arms, we may or may not be able to help you. Documenting submissions isn't our focus: We want to help you to choose and use a name that fits the historical culture you are re-creating. Our research can sometimes be used to support submissions to the College of Arms, but that it not our goal and our results are often incompatible with the College's needs. If your main goal is to register a particular name, then we may not be able to help you. We understand that two of our members who are knowledgeable about Gaelic names have already corresponded with you about these names. We have appended a copy of one of those notes to this letter, in case you've misplaced it. We have a little more information to add now, but only a little: Their basic conclusions are correct. is a modern Scottish Gaelic adaptation of the English name ; we find no evidence that it was used in period [1]. The most similar Scottish Gaelic woman's name that we know is , a Gaelic adaptation of that is pronounced \kah-ris-CHEE-na\ [2, 3]. is an English spelling of the Irish Gaelic name . About 1600, this name is recorded in English records as , , and [4]. Notice that the last spelling already shows the reversal of the and that also appears in . This name was carried by Irish emigrants to the Glasgow area, where we find or before 1556 [5]. The root name means "son of Ualgharg". is an Irish given name, deriving from elements meaning "high temper" -- this sounds like your "fierce and proud" description, so the two origins that you describe are actually identical. That is, "Magorlick", if translated literally, means "son of a man whose name means 'fierce/proud'". However, in practice it really only meant "son of Ualgharg". In Gaelic culture, no woman would ever use a surname like this; or surnames were used literally, and thus only by men. A woman would generally have been known as her father's daughter. For example, the daughter of would have been called . If you'd like to learn more about Gaelic name construction, we recommend an article on the web: Quick and Easy Gaelic Bynames http://www.stanford.edu/~skrossa/medievalscotland/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/index.html If you have any questions about the proper way to construct a Gaelic name, please write us again. If you are most interested in having a name that sounds similar to , then you may want to consider another possibility. In Scotland late in our period there were two distinct cultures which spoke different languages: Gaelic, in the Higlands, and Scots, in the Lowlands and towns. Gaelic was the same language spoken in Ireland. Scots was very similar to contemporary English. The two cultures had different styles of naming that did not mix; but some individual names were adopted from one language into the other. In particular, some Gaelic surnames were adopted into Scots as inherited surnames. Thus, while a Gaelic-speaking woman could not have been called , a 16th century Scots-speaking woman, the daughter or granddaughter of an Irish immigrant who bore that name, could perhaps have been surnamed . If you adopt that persona, then a name like would be a reasonable choice [6]. We hope this brief letter has been useful. Please write us again if you have any questions. I was assisted in researching and writing this letter by Talan Gwynek, Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, Fergus Stout, Effrick neyn Kenneoch, and Aelfwyn aet Gyrwum. For the Academy, Arval Benicoeur 9 Nov 1998 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - References [1] Morgan, Peadar, _Ainmean Chloinne: Scottish Gaelic Names for Children_ (Scotland: Taigh na Teud Music Publishers, 1989). [2] Black, George F., _The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning and History_, (New York: The New York Public Library, 1986), s.n. Gilleduff. [3] Ewen, C. L'Estrange, _A History of Surnames of the British Isles_ (London: Kegan Paul, Trench, 1931; Detroit: Gale Research Company, 1968), p.209. [4] Woulfe, Patrick, _Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames_ (Kansas City: Irish Genealogical Foundation). [5] Black, op. cit., s.nn. Macwalrick, Macgorlick, Macgoldrick. [6] Black, op. cit., has 1561 s.n. Crowbo. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Copy of a note to you from Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: A challenging name > I'm trying to document a name and haven't had much luck - would you be > able to help? IIRC you've gotten a few suggestions on sca-heralds, but here's some brief analysis. > The name is "Curstaidh Magorlick". > > The name "Curstaidh" is taken from a Hanks/Hodges (gasp) book, being the > gaelic petname of "Kirstie" which is derived from "Christine / > Christina". I'd like to keep as close to "Curstaidh / Kirstie" as > possible, if possible with the "C" as the first letter, but am open to > suggestions. I've made an assumption -- quite possibly in error -- that you're interested in a Scottish name, since "Curstaidh" is specifically a Scots Gaelic form of the name, and since people tend to use plain "Gaelic" to mean "Scots Gaelic". Some of the discussion would be different if you are interested in Irish options, and I've touched on this somewhat. My sources for "Curstaidh" show that it's a modern Scots Gaelic rendering of the pronunciation of the name "Kirstie". In general, the variants of Cristina that reverse the "i" and "r" in the first syllable tend to be Scandinavian, although there's one rare examples of "Kyrstyan" in an English source in 1450 (although I believe this is in a source that is talking _about_ names, rather than listing the names of actual people). Although there was considerable Scandinavian influence in Scotland, I can't find examples of any of the various names starting with "Chris-" (i.e., Christian, Christina, Christopher, or their diminutives) showing this sound-reversal in Scottish examples in period. Although the name "Christina" was used in Scotland in period, it is perfectly possible that the specific diminutive "Kirsty" (in whatever spelling) was not used in Scotland until more modern times. (There are lots of names that have become wildly popular in a particular culture in modern times that weren't used at all in that culture before 1600. You can't judge simply by modern use.) There is one example I can find of a similar diminutive _without_ the sound-reversal. Black's "Surnames of Scotland" (p.151 under "Christie") notes a woman in Edinburgh in 1296 who is recorded both as "Cristine de Carvan" and as "Cristy de Carvant". The question of a Gaelic form of the name is a separate issue. I don't know whether there is evidence that either Christina or Christy was used among Gaelic-speaking people in Scotland in period. Black (under various headings) lists thirteen women in our period with the given name "Christian" or "Christina" (including "Cristy") -- none of them has a Gaelic surname. Needless to say, this isn't exhaustive research, but it is a pretty strong argument from the data we _do_ have. Keep in mind that Scotland was _never_ entirely Gaelic-speaking -- not even close to it. There are plenty of "Scottish" names that were not in use among Gaelic-speaking people in period. However, modern books on Scottish names will give you Gaelic-language versions of just about every name now in use in Scotland. One reason behind this is the modern (well, ok, it started in the 18th century) adoption of Highland Gaelic culture as the symbol of "Scoticity". So modern books have an underlying assumption that writing names using the spelling-system of Scots Gaelic somehow makes them "more Scottish". "Curstaidh" isn't, in any meaningful sense, a "different" name than "Kirsty" -- it's simply the same name written using the spelling system of two different languages. So using the Scots Gaelic spelling system for the name only makes sense if the name _was_, in fact, used by Gaelic-speaking (and, presumably, Gaelic-literate) people in period. Woulfe (Irish Names and Surnames) indicates that the name "Christina" was introduced to Ireland by the Anglo-Normans. It is certainly possible that it was taken into use by the native Irish in period, although I have no actual examples of it. I can find no references to any form parallel with "Christie" being used in Ireland, much less for this form with the sound-reversal seen in "Kirsty". > The name "Magorlick" is the old gaelic form of McGoldrick, and has two > possible meanings, as close as I can find out. One is not acceptable, > meaning "son of...", but the other meaning "fierce and proud" seems > okay. "Magorlick", to start with, is an English-context written form of the name, i.e., this is how someone who was literate in English (or was writing an English-language document) might have written the name. The interaction of Gaelic patronymic surnames with English-speaking society and English-language records is complex. As a somewhat simplified explanation, in both Ireland and Scotland, when such names were used by Gaelic-speaking people in a Gaelic-language context (i.e., when they were speaking or writing in Gaelic) then the available evidence is that patronyms were always used with their literal meaning -- that is, "mac X" was used literally to mean "X's son" and would never have been used by a woman. In an English language context, several things were possible. A Gaelic surname might be transcribed with the original Gaelic form intact but simply put into English spelling. In this case, the basic elements involved would still follow the literal Gaelic meaning -- so you might have a man named "Finlay MacLachlan" and his son "Angus MacKinlay" and daughter "Jannet Neyn Finlay". But the person recording the name _might_ interpret as if it were an English-style hereditary surname assuming that all members of a family would bear the same surname -- thus recording the names of Finlay MacLachlan's children as "Angus MacLachlan" and "Jannet MacLachlan". (There are other variants possible, but these are the anchor-points of the scale.) "Magorlick", according to Black (p.504 under "MacGorlick" and "MacGoldrick") is a patronymic surname of Irish origin, deriving from the Gaelic "mac Ualghairg", i.e., "son of Ualgharg". "Ualgharg" itself is an Irish given name, deriving from elements meaning "high temper" -- this sounds like your "fierce and proud" description, so the "two origins" that you describe are actually identical. That is, "Magorlick", if translated literally, means "son of a man whose name means 'fierce/proud'". Now, getting back to the previous discussion, in an English-language context (and keep in mind that the vast majority of medieval Scottish records were in English (or Latin) -- _extremely_ few were in Gaelic) it would not be "incorrect" for a woman to have a surname of the form "Mac-X" -- it's just that if she _did_ have such a surname, it would _not_ mean that her father was named "X". It _might_ mean that her father was surnamed "Mac-X" (leaving the question open whether _his_ father was named "X" or whether the family had entirely switched over to English-style fixed surnames). Now, if you particularly want the name to be Scottish, it's worth noting that, as mentioned above, Black indicates that the surname is of Irish origin. In fact, he gives no examples of "Ma(c)gorlick" or "Ma(c)goldrick" before modern times at all. (Nor can I find examples of this variant of the name in period Irish sources.) Under a different version of the surname (Black p.569 "MacWalrick") he notes that an Irish family bearing this name moved to Scotland in the 16th century, and shows up in records of the mid-16th century as "McOlrig" and "Makolrik". English-languge records in Ireland circa 1600 show the name as "M'Walrick" and "M'Collrick" (Woulfe "Irish Names and Surnames" p.412). So, to summarize, I can't find any evidence that a name pronounced like "Curstaidh" (i.e., Kirsty) was used in period in either Scotland or Ireland. The closest name I can find in Scotland is a 13th century "Cristy", for which there is support for an English-context name, but not really for a Gaelic-context name. The closest name I can find for Ireland is "Christina" which, if it _had_ been taken up in native Irish use, would have appeared in Gaelic-context records as "Cristiona" (pronounced "Christina" not "Chris-tee-oh-na") or "Cristin" (see Woulfe as above). I can find no evidence for the form "Ma(c)gorlick" in period at all. Another variant of the name appears as "McOlrig" and "Makolrik" in English-language contexts in Scotland in the mid 16th century, and as "M'Walrick" and "M'Collrick" in English-language contexts in Ireland ca. 1600. It was also used in Ireland in earlier centuries, but in Scotland only appears to have been present in the second half of the 16th century. In either place, any "Mac" form of the surname would only have been used by a woman in an English-language context, but it would be possible (although not obligatory) in that type of context. > I guess I'm looking for a way to get these two names passed, keeping the > "C" and "M" if possible. I am open to suggestions, though! Well, no matter what else you do, both elements of the name should be from the same language context. That is, both should be written as they would be in the same language, either English or Gaelic. So whatever the other factors involved, "Curstaidh Magorlick" is not a plausible historic form of the name. (It's certainly a possible _modern_ name, because modern sensibilities have a very different attitude toward the written forms of names and their relation to pronunciation and language.) If the initials "C M" are one of your top priorities, then you're going to be using an English-context form of the name -- because that's the only way you would be using a form of the surname beginning with "M". If you are interested in a Scottish name, then you're pretty much limiting yourself to living in the late 16th century and being the daughter of an Irish immigrant. The "formal" form of your given name would probably be "Cristine" or "Cristan", but "Cristy" might be a reasonable nickname (although the only actual example of that spelling is from three centuries earlier). Black has examples of "Cristine" in 1462 (p.825 under "Wright") and "Cristan" in 1561 (p.188 under "Crowbo"). So "Cristy MacOlrik" is the closest plausible Scottish form to what you started with that I can put together. If you're interested in an Irish name, you've got a bit more lattitude on date, but for the initials, you've still got to stick to an English-language context. I don't have any actual examples of how the given name was being used in English records in Ireland, but in England, in the relevant period, the options shown in "C(h)risti(a)n(a)" cover most of the variants. Using the examples from Woulfe (with the abbreviations expanded out), something like "Cristina MacWalrick" or "Cristina MacCollrick" would be typical for the 16th century -- I don't have Anglicized examples of the surname from earlier periods. So ... I don't know whether any of those satisfies your priorities. Depending on what ideas you had about where, when, and in what sort of culture you wanted to place your persona, it may not be possible to satisfy all your priorities, and you may have to pick only one or two to satisfy. Tangwystyl