ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 1423 http://www.s-gabriel.org/1423 ************************************ From: 16 Jan 1999 Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked us about a late-period Hungarian masculine name meaning "Charles, son of John". Specifically, you wanted to know whether is a good historical name with this meaning. is a reasonable documentary name. However, it is not the most likely or typical spelling of this name in Hungarian, for reasons explained below. In Hungary during your period, most records were written in Latin, and is the typical Latin form of the Germanic name . In everyday speech and in documents written in Hungarian, though, we find the form [1]. Thus, the name was spelled in official Latin documents, but spelled in Hungarian and pronounced \KAW-rohl\, where the \AW\ represents the sound of 'a' in . You are correct that the name is common in Hungarian. One in twelve men bore the name in 16th century records, making it the single most common name. However, we found only a couple of instances in which the '-fi' or '-fy' suffix is attached to in a patronymic (part a name identifying a person's father). In most cases, patronymics were unmarked, i.e. they consisted simply of the father's name unaltered. Following this pattern, your name could be , meaning "Karol, son of Janos". However, it turns out that the name was an exception to the general pattern. The most common patronymic forms of were the marked forms or . This is a standard Hungarian grammatical form, and while it is not as common for names in general, it is the most common form for patronyms formed from . We found the following patronymics based on [2]: & vars 44 examples (includes Janusy, Janosi, Janosij, Yanosy, Janossi, etc.) or 31 examples 3 examples 1 example Thus, since is the standard Hungarian form of , and since the most common patronym forms from are and , we recommend using , pronounced \KAW-rohl YAW-nosh\, or , pronounced \YAW-noh-shee KAW-rohl\, as your name. You also wanted to know what form of documentation you would need to have in order to register your name in the SCA. Laurel has ruled that Academy letters are acceptable as documentation, so you will not need copies of the cited sources. Simply print out this letter in full (including headers and footnotes), and submit it as documentation with your name submission. We hope this has been helpful, and that we can continue to assist you. Arval Benicoeur and Margaret Makafee contributed to this letter. In service, --Walraven van Nijmegen Academy of S. Gabriel [1] Ka/zme/r Miklo/s. "Re/gi Magyar Csala/dnevek Szo/ta/ra: XIV-XVII Sza/zad" Magyar Nyelvtudoma/nyi Ta/rsasa/g, Budapest, 1993. (s.n. Ka/roly); Wherever a slash appears (/), it represents an accent over the previous letter. [2] Ka/zme/r, (s.n. Ja/nos, Ja/nosfi, Ja/nosfia, Ja/nosi)