ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 1725 http://www.s-gabriel.org/1725 ************************************ From: Cardinal Ximenez 3 Jul 1999 Greetings, Here's the information we found on , which you wanted to use as a French name from between 1200 and 1400, and on your proposed arms, which we blazoned as "Per pale and per chevron argent and vert, a chevron counterchanged, overall a cross patonce Or." You said that you formed your given name from examples at the Web site http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/ramon/occitan/occitan_r.html The way you formed your name is a perfect example of how to construct a name from period elements. Since you found examples of both the names you wanted to use, and also found examples of double first names for the period you're intersted in, you've used the right procedure. The only problem is that the names you used came from the first column, labelled "French" on the Web page. According to the introduction to the page, at http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/ramon/occitan/ the forms labelled "French" in the Web pages are modern French translations of names in Occitan--a language that is related to, but distinct from, French. Occitan was spoken in Provence, which is now part of France. Since the names you found are Occitan, we looked for other Occitan forms of and found a number that are appropriate for your period. (The spelling on the Web page is a typo of , which is the normal modern French form). (1175-1225) (1175-1225) (1175-1225) [1] [2] Any of these would be appropriate for your persona (the two forms ending in <-et> are diminuitives). The Occitan spelling [1] would also be appropriate--the <-s> is added for grammatical reasons. The hyphen in double names is a later invention; all the medieval examples we have appear without it. Thus the correct Occitan form of your first name is , or one of the spelling variants we found. is a period form of that city's name; we also found the forms and . [3] Any of these would be appropriate. Thus, the name , or one of the spelling variants we found, would be a perfect name for an Occitan man living between 1200 and 1400. The field division you used, "Per pale and per chevron," is (as you said) occassionally found in medieval heraldry. [4] However, it is extremely unlikely that a chevron would have been counterchanged over this field, since it makes both the field and the chevron difficult to identify. It is even less likely that a cross would have been placed over this--overall charges were generally rare and it would be very surprising to see a cross overall on an already unusual coat of arms. Therefore, we suggest these alternatives, which would be appropriate for early French heraldry: * Per pale and per chevron argent and vert. * Chevronelly argent and vert. * Chevronelly argent and vert, a cross patonce Or. * Chevronelly argent and vert, in chief three crosses patonce Or. * Per pale and per chevron argent and vert, in chief two crosses patonce counterchanged. * Per pale and per chevron argent and vert, in dexter chief a cross patonce gules. We checked these for conflict with armory protected by the SCA and found no conflicts. Walraven van Nijmegen, Aryanhwy merch Catmael, Juliana de Luna, Rouland Carre, Arval Benicoeur, and Zenobia Naphtali contributed to this letter. We hope that this has been helpful, and that we can continue to assist you. In service, Alan Fairfax Academy of S. Gabriel [1] Ramons lo Montalbes, "French/Occitan Names from the XII and XIII Century" (WWW: privately published, 1997). Accessed June 17, 1999 at http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/ramon/occitan/occitan_r.html [2] Chambers, Frank C. _Proper Names in the Lyrics of the Troubadours_ (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1971). [3] Langlois, Ernest, _Table des Noms Propres de toute nature compris dan les Chansons de Geste_ (New York: Burt Franklin, 1971 [1904]). [4] Bossewell, John, _Works of Armorie_ (London, 1572; facsimile reprint Amsterdam and New York: Theatrum Orbis Terrarum Ltd. and Da Capo Press, 1969, Fo.71v shows 'Per pale and per chevron or and sable, in sinister chief an owl argent'