ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 2298 http://www.s-gabriel.org/2298 ************************************ 14 May 2001 From: (Josh Mittleman) Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked whether your new design for your arms is appropriate for a Dutch man named Danneel vander Donc, living between 1450 and 1550. Here is what we have found. You blazoned your design "Barry of six gules and Or on a bend gules two garbs or and on a bend sinister gules three garbs or in chief a lion passant queue forchy or". You based it on the arms of Donck that appear in a 16th century Flemish armorial "Barry of six gules and Or, a bend and overall a bend sinister argent" [1]. We aren't sure what it means to combine a bend and a bend sinister of the same tincture in a single set of arms. It may mean that the bend sinister is noticably narrower than the bend; but since Bergmans' armorial does not include pictures, we can't be sure. Your drawing, with the bend and bend sinister identical in width, is indistinguishable from a saltire; so we would blazon your design "Barry gules and Or, on a saltire gules five garbs Or; and on the chiefmost trait a lion passant Or." Each of the individual elements of your design is perfectly suited for your period, but the way you've combined them is unfortunately not. We will discuss the details and then suggest some alternatives. Barry fields, saltires, garbs, and lions passant are all found in Flemish heraldry of your period. Indeed, Bergmans' armorial even has examples of a saltire on a barry field, so that is an excellent starting point [2]. However, placing a red saltire on a half-red field is a problem: We found nothing similar in the heraldry of your culture [3], and it probably would not be registered by the SCA College of Arms. Five charges on a saltire is a fine motif [2]. However, we recommend against inverting the upper garbs so that they point to the center. Charges on a saltire are typical arranged in one of three ways: * all five vertical; or * the center charge vertical and each of the other four tilted along its limb of the saltire; or * three tilted to follow the line of the bendwise arm of the saltire while the other two follow the line of bendwise sinister arm. In all cases we've seen, the top of each charge points either to the top of the field or to one of the upper corners, not downward. We believe it is unlikely that a lion passant would have been squeezed into the tiny space between the upper arms of a saltire. Placing a lion on the upper trait of a barry field is fine, but space above a saltire is ill-suited for a charge that is long and narrow along its horizontal axis. If you omit it, your design will be less cluttered and more typical of your period: Barry gules and Or, on a saltire argent five garbs gules. Placing the lion on a chief would also be more typical of the heraldry of western Europe [4]. For example, you might consider: Barry gules and Or, a saltire and on a chief argent a lion passant gules. It's possible that the blazon of the arms of Donck with a bend and a bend sinister reflects cadency, i.e. the bend sinister was added at some point to create a variant of an earlier coat. If so, the family might originally have borne "Barry gules and Or, a bend argent". You might use that as the starting point for your design, e.g.: Barry gules and Or, on a bend argent three garbs gules. Barry gules and Or, on a bend argent a lion passant gules. [8] In your earlier question [5], you based your heraldic design on the arms of a different Vander Donck family, which you had found on the web [6]. If none of the variations we've suggested appeals to you, then you might want to base your new design on the arms of yet another family of this name. A 14th century Jan van der Donc bore "Vert, a chief ermine charged in dexter chief with a mullet of six points gules" [7]. Replacing the mullet with "a garb gules" or "a lion passant gules" would be an excellent choice. We hope this letter has been useful. Please write us again if any part of it has been unclear or if you have other questions. I was assisted in researching and writing this letter by Talan Gwynek, Adelaide de Beaumont, Julie Stampnitzky, Zenobia Naphtali, Walraven van Nijmegen, Blaise de Cormeilles, Margaret Makafee, Juliana de Luna, and Rouland Carre. For the Academy, Arval Benicoeur 14 May 2001 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - References [1] Walraven van Nijmegen, "Analysis, Armorial, and Ordinary of Armory Recorded in Paul Bergmans' Armorial De Flandre du XVIme Siecle" (WWW: Brian R. Speer, Privately published, 1997), #319. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1336/bergmans.html [2] Bergmans' Armorial, #6 (Bevre: Barry of eight Or and azure, a saltire gules), #156 (Molenbeke: Or, a saltire wavy azure between four garbs sable), #171 (Moerkerke: Or, on a saltire gules five escallops argent), #289 (Watervliet: Or, on a saltire gules five annulets argent), #346 (Herwin: Argent, a fess gules and in chief a lion passant vert pizzled azure), #152 (Winnendale: Gyronny of eight azure and Or, an escutcheon gules, on a chief Or a lion passant sable armed and langued gules). [3] The closest we found to a saltire sharing a tincture with a multiply-divided field are these arms from Bergmans' roll: Dudzelle (#223) Barry of six argent and azure, on a quarter argent, a chevron gules. Segerscapple (#410) Barry of give Or and gules, a bordure gules. d'Abvil (#509) Barry of eight gules and argent, a bordure argent. Belleghem (#329) Chevronelly argent and gules, a bordure argent. Bordures are used in unusual ways in many heraldic styles, so it is unwise to extrapolate from the last three examples. The first example is essentially arms of pretense, another common exception to basic style rules. [4] In English heraldry, we find examples of a lion passant on the upper trait of a barry field, e.g. Giffard (1285) Ermine, two bars gules and on a chief gules a lion passant guardant Or. Humphrey-Smith, Cecil R., _Anglo-Norman Armory Two_ (Canterbury: Institute for Heraldic and Geneaological Studies, 1984). [5] Academy of Saint Gabriel report 2199 http://www.s-gabriel.org/2199 [6] Piet Verdonk, "Geslachtswapens Verdonck" (WWW: privately published, 1998-2001, accessed 27 Feb 2001). The arms of Huibertien Verdonck (born 1644) are given as "Gules, a lion rampant queue fourchy Or and in chief three increscent moons argent." http://www.xs4all.nl/~verdonk/heraldiek.htm [7] Bibliothe\que royale Albert Ier, _Gelre_ (Leuven: Jan van Helmont, 1992, ISBN 90-74318-03-7), fo.90, nr.1214. Jean v. d. Donck is noted as having lived c.1363. [8] This design is similar to the registered SCA arms of Margita z Oponice: Gules, fretty Or, on a bend argent three millrinds palewise gules. There is no conflict: There is one difference for the field tincture and another for removing the fretty, which the College of Arms regards as a charge group.