ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 3119 http://www.s-gabriel.org/3119 ************************************ 21 Nov 2006 From: "Calybrid Ine Tere" Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked for our opinion of 'daughter of Paitin' as an Irish patronymic byname between 1150-1350, for use with your current name, . You said that you were more interested in the earlier spelling than in the later spelling , and wanted to know if we could suggest appropriate Latin and English spellings of your entire name. Here is what we have found. (In this letter, we are using the slash to represent an acute accent over the previous letter.) Both [1] and are found within the time period you specified (1150-1350), so it would be fine to use them together [1,2]. You mentioned a preference for the form over . is a Middle Irish form [2], while is Early Modern [3], so either form would be acceptable for your time period. Because you suggested that you were willing to accept either form, we have provided likely spellings for both forms below. c1150-c1200: c1200-c1350: Both are roughly pronounced \SLAH-n^@ EEN-y@n FAH-deen^\. We will break the pronunciation down into its parts. is pronounced \SLAH-n^@\, where \n^@\ sounds similar to the letters in . is pronounced \EEN-y@n\, where @ represents the the sound of in and . is pronounced \FAH-deen^\, where \n^\ represents the sound of ny in nyah-nyah, or of n-tilde in the Spanish . You asked also for the Latinized spellings of . There are a number of forms it could have taken, so we will suggest some of the more likely. was Latinized as . [4] We found Latinized as in the 14th century; the Latin genitive (possessive) form of is , so could be Latinized to in the 14th century. [5] We think it likely, however, that a 12th century Latinization would have been based on the full name rather than on the pet form . The standard Latinization of was , whose genitive is , so the whole name would have been . We hope this letter has been helpful to you. Please write us again if any part of it has been unclear or if you have other questions. For the Academy Calybrid Ine Tere August 15, 2006 Also contributing to this letter were: Aryanhwy merch Catmael, Talan Gwynek, Ursula Georges, Arval Benicoeur, Ines Alfon, Ari Ansson ---------------- References: [1] Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 2501 http://www.s-gabriel.org/2501 [2] O/ Corra/in, Donnchadh and Fidelma Maguire, _Irish Names_ (Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990). [3] Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, "Index of Names in Irish Annals" (WWW: Academy of S. Gabriel, 2001-2006). http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/ [4] Woulfe, Patrick, _Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames_ (Kansas City: Irish Genealogical Foundation). s.n. [5] Jones, Heather Rose (aka Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn), "Names and Naming Practices in the Red Book of Ormond" (SCA, Inc: Known World Heraldic Symposium Proceedings, Tir Ysgithir, 1998; WWW: Academy of Saint Gabriel, 1999) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/lateirish/ 21 Nov 2006 From: "Calybrid Ine Tere" Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked for our opinion of 'daughter of Paitin' as an Irish patronymic byname between 1150-1350, for use with your current name, . You said that you were more interested in the earlier spelling than in the later spelling , and wanted to know if we could suggest appropriate Latin and English spellings of your entire name. Here is what we have found. (In this letter, we are using the slash to represent an acute accent over the previous letter.) Both [1] and are found within the time period you specified (1150-1350), so it would be fine to use them together [1,2]. You mentioned a preference for the form over . is a Middle Irish form [2], while is Early Modern [3], so either form would be acceptable for your time period. Because you suggested that you were willing to accept either form, we have provided likely spellings for both forms below. c1150-c1200: c1200-c1350: Both are roughly pronounced \SLAH-n^@ EEN-y@n FAH-deen^\. We will break the pronunciation down into its parts. is pronounced \SLAH-n^@\, where \n^@\ sounds similar to the letters in . is pronounced \EEN-y@n\, where @ represents the the sound of in and . is pronounced \FAH-deen^\, where \n^\ represents the sound of ny in nyah-nyah, or of n-tilde in the Spanish . You asked also for the Latinized spellings of . There are a number of forms it could have taken, so we will suggest some of the more likely. was Latinized as . [4] We found Latinized as in the 14th century; the Latin genitive (possessive) form of is , so could be Latinized to in the 14th century. [5] We think it likely, however, that a 12th century Latinization would have been based on the full name rather than on the pet form . The standard Latinization of was , whose genitive is , so the whole name would have been . We hope this letter has been helpful to you. Please write us again if any part of it has been unclear or if you have other questions. For the Academy Calybrid Ine Tere November 21, 2006 Also contributing to this letter were: Aryanhwy merch Catmael, Talan Gwynek, Ursula Georges, Arval Benicoeur, Ines Alfon, Ari Ansson, Eleyne de Comnocke ---------------- References: [1] Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 2501 http://www.s-gabriel.org/2501 [2] O/ Corra/in, Donnchadh and Fidelma Maguire, _Irish Names_ (Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990). [3] Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, "Index of Names in Irish Annals" (WWW: Academy of S. Gabriel, 2001-2006). http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/ [4] Woulfe, Patrick, _Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames_ (Kansas City: Irish Genealogical Foundation). s.n. [5] Jones, Heather Rose (aka Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn), "Names and Naming Practices in the Red Book of Ormond" (SCA, Inc: Known World Heraldic Symposium Proceedings, Tir Ysgithir, 1998; WWW: Academy of Saint Gabriel, 1999) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/lateirish/