ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 415 http://www.s-gabriel.org/415 *********************************** ************************************************* * * * NOTE: Some of the Academy's early reports * * contain errors that we haven't yet * * corrected. Please use it with caution. * * * ************************************************* Final report for 415 Antoinette Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel! You asked for our opinion of the name "Antoinette de LaLonde" and for information about the arms of the Hungarian family Baylog. Here is what we have found. Your name is substantially correct for your period. We have a couple minor suggestions of spelling, but otherwise we congratulate you on your choice. We found an example of the name "Anthoinette" dated in the 16th century [1]. You will note that it is spelled slightly differently from the modern form "Antoinette", but this a minor variation. "T" and "th" were largely interchangable in late-period French. We did not find an earlier example of the name, but we note that the masculine name "Antoine" was used in Paris in 1292. We think that the feminine diminutive "Antoine\te" (e\ represents an 'e' with an accent grave) was probably in use at the same time, since we find analogous pairs of names Colet (m) Cole\te (f); Franque (m), Franqueite (f); Giles, Gilet (m), Gile\te (f); Guillemet (m), Guillemete (f) [2]. We do not have many references on French names between 1300 and 1500, but we think it is reasonable to assume that "Antoinette" was in use through this period in one spelling or another. If you want to set your persona around 1300, then we suggest your spell your name "Antoine\te". If you want to set your persona in the 16th century, then we suggest "Anthoinette". In between, your guess is as good as ours. Your surname "de LaLonde" is almost correct for your period; we found evidence of several places called "La Londe" in Normandy and the Ile de France. One of them is recorded in 1337 as "Landa" [3]. However, we think it is unlikely that the name would have been written "de LaLonde", with the two words of the place name collapsed into one. We recommend that you write it "de La Londe" or "de la Londe". The modern notion of "family arms" does not match the way that arms were used before 1600. Arms belonged to individuals and were inherited by their children. Many people shared the same surname without being related, so they would not have shared the same arms. In short, there is no such things as "the arms of Baylog", and even if some particular person in our period who was named Baylog did bear arms, the chances are very small that a modern Baylog would have any claim on those specific arms. For a more detailed discussion of these ideas, we recommend the MFAQ posting on rec.heraldry, which you can find on the web at We do not have the resources to look up arms borne by any particular family. If you are interested in genealogical research, you may be able to find help in one of the soc.genealogy.* newsgroups. If you are looking for arms to use for your Society persona, then we strongly recommend that you avoid using your ancestors' arms. It would be very unlikely for a French woman in our period to bear Hungarian-style arms. Using your mundane family's arms is also discouraged by Society custom, which says that your Society persona should be distinct from your real person. It is also likely to lead you to bad medieval re-creation: Very few arms borne by modern families were actually designed before 1600. I hope this letter has been helpful. If you would like our assistance designing arms appropriate for your French persona, or if you have any other questions, we would be happy to help. For the Academy, Arval Benicoeur References [1] Cateline de la Mor, "Sixteenth Century Norman Names", published in KWHS proceedings, Trimaris, 1994. [2] Colm Dubh, "An Index to Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris", published in KWHS proceedings, Meridies, 1996. [3] Dauzat & Rostaing, "Dictionnaire Etymologique des noms de lieux en France"; Paris, Librairie Larousse, 1963.