Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 800

Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 800

This report is available at http://www.s-gabriel.org/800

Some of the Academy's early reports contain errors that we haven't yet corrected. Please use it with caution.

Greetings from the Academy of Saint Gabriel!

You asked us about the name <Cathus the Curious> as a Welsh name, specifically about the period appropriate for <Cathus>, the use of descriptive epithets in Welsh names, and for additional sources. To put our replies into context, we have repeated your questions in this letter, and have numbered them:

(1) The name Cathus I found in the "Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts" by P.C Bartrum, which says it was used 2-300 yrs up to the time of Llywelyn the Great.

This is correct. The name <Cathus ap Rhufon> appears in the index, and <Kathus mab Rhufawn> in the manuscript [1]. Apparently though, it is the _people_ that date from the time of Llywelyn the Great, and not the manuscript or the spellings of the names. However, the spelling of the name would not likely have been significantly different.

(2) I haven't been able to find any other reference to Llywelyn the Great to date the name. Was this another name for Griffydd ap Llywelyn?

No -- although he had a son by that name. Llywelyn Fawr (the Great), or Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, lived in the late 12th and first half of the 13th century [2], so the genealogies in which <Cathus> appears would cover approximately the 9-10th centuries.

(3) Are discriptive epithets used in Welsh naming or was it strictly xx ap yy (xx son of yy)?

Descriptive epithets were used, but most descriptive epithets refer to physical descriptions of the body and physical defects. There are occasional nicknames taken from emotions or personality traits, but these tend to be taken from relatively basic concepts (happy, sad, brave, foolish, etc.) and ones that have strong cultural significance. Also, we found no Welsh word with the specific nuaces of "curious" before the 18th century or so.

"Curious" therefore seems an unlikely choice for an epithet in period Welsh.

(4) What would the proper Welsh spelling/grammar/pronouncation of this name be?

<Cathus> would be pronounced /KATH-us/, where the 'th' is pronounced as in the word <think> or <thistle>, and the 'u' is pronounced as the German 'u-umlaut'. Since <the Curious> does not seem to be a plausible component of a Welsh name, we cannot provide a "proper" Welsh grammar for the full name. For ideas on more typical name elements, you might examine the Welsh name pamphlets on the web at:

http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/celtic.html

We hope this has been helpful, and that we can continue to assist you.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, Talan Gwynek, and Arval Benicoeur contributed to this letter.

In service,
--Walraven van Nijmegen
Academy of S. Gabriel


[1] P.C. Bartrum. "Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts" University of Wales

Press, Cardiff, 1966.

[2] Heini Gruffudd. "Enwau i'r Cymry" (Welsh Personal Names) Talybont,

Y Lolfa, 1984.