Various Sources for Dialogue between Orthodox & Protestants - - - - - Excerpts from Eastern Orthodox Response to Evangelical Claims by Fr. Paul O'Callaghan, Antiochian Archdiocese Light & Life MN 55426-0421, (1984) ISBN 0-937032-35-2 [Tradition]"Hold to the traditions you were taught by us, whether by word of mouth or letter" (II Thess,2:15) [Mary & Saints]..do not worship Mary.."all generations shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48).. Jesus Christ is an eternal, divine Person who took on a complete human nature through the Virgin Mary (cf John 1:1,14). He is expressly called "G*d" in the Scriptures (cf John 20:28). As Mary gave birth to and nurtured a divine Person, she is rightly called the "Mother of G*d"..ask Mary and other saints to intercede for us before G*d in prayer.. reality of the Church encompasses both the living and those who have died and are now "with Christ" (Phil 1:23). Those who have died in Christ do not care for us any less.. G*d has been pleased to grant many miracles and blessings by the intercessions of the saints..Jesus showed that the departed can be aware of events on earth when he asserted "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it and was glad" (John 8:56).. Jeremiah is represented as constantly praying before G*d for the people of Israel (2Macc 15:14).. epistles refer to all faithful Christians as "saints".. does not say that those who are uncanonized are not saints in the Biblical sence.. canonizes saints to hold up individual Christians as images of the work of the Holy Spirit and examples of the fullness of life in Christ.. [Scripture & Tradition] Heresies and distortions result when the Bible is torn away from the Church or interpreted privately outside the catholic tradition of the Church (cf 2Pet3:16). The same Holy Spirit that inspired the Scriptures is promised to guide the Church unto all truth and preserve her from error (cf John 16:13). The Bible is not "alone" - it belongs to the Church..Orthodox Church history can be traced from Jesus himself directly to medern times without interruption.. accepts the Bible as the divinely-inspired, infallible Word of G*d.. Scriptures must be interpreted according to the catholic tradition of the Church.. oral teaching of the Apostles as it has been handed down in the Church (cf 2Thess2:15). It is the result of the fact that the Holy Spirit lives in the Church (cf John 14:26).. teachings of the Ecumenical Councils.. [Icons] G*d himself commanded that two images of the cherubim be made and placed upon the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant (cf Exod 25:18).. St. John of Damascus.. G*d, being invisible, inconceivable, and limitless, could not be represented.. because G*d has in Christ takn on human nature, Jesus Christ the G*d-man could legitimately be depicted in His human form..7th Ecumenical Council in 787.. do not pray to icons.. praying before an icon.. If a person kisses a picture of his mother, is he honoring a piece of paper?.. St. John of Damascus wrote: "I do not worship matter, but Him who took on the matter for the sake of my salvation".. [Scripture & Tradition] If you do not accept the authority and infallibility of the Church, how can you accept the authority and infallibility of the Scriptures? It was the Orthodox Church that decided what books constitute Holy Scripture.. promised to guide the Church unto all truth.. would not prevail against her (cf John 16:13, Matt 16:18).. [Priests] St Paul also did not hesitate to call the male parents in Ephesus by the title "father" (Eph 6:4).. official title of an Othodox priest is "presbyter" in Greek, which translates to "elder" in English.. "Royal Priesthood" of all believers (cf 1Pet2:9).. gave his Apostles special authority and special functions that were not given to all his followers (cf Matt 16:19, 18:18, John 20:22). The Apostolic ministry has been passed down in the Church by the laying on of hands (cf Acts 14:23, 1Tim4:13), and continues today in the priesthood of the Orthodox Church.. [Eucharist, Rituals] Divine Liturgy has always been described as a sacrifice from the earliest Christian times. In a document such as the "Didache," (50-100 AD), it is described as the sacrifice prophesised by the Prophet Malachi (cf Mal 1:11).. sacrificial connotations of the Eucharist in I Corinthians 10.. physical acts of worship take place in the heavenly kingdom (cf Rev 5:6-14, 8:1-4, etc.).. We know from early documents, such as the Apologies of Justin the Martyr (Apology 1:67), that the basic elements have remained the same.. If at times Orthodox missions have been relatively inactive, it has been due to Moslem or Communist domination.. calls all Orthodox Christians to be missionaries and witnesses for Christ.. [Baptism, Born Again] baptism.. John 3:5.. Titus 3:5.. The phrase "born-again Christian" today is often used to refer to someone who has experience a certain type of emotional conversion experience. This is not a Biblical teaching. The new birth is a spirital event which may or may not have emotional consequences.. does not deny that a believer is "saved;" it only denies that a person can infallibly know he is going to heaven.. possible to fall away from Christ through sin (cf Heb 6:4-6). Christians are not fully saved until they enter the heavenly kingdom (cf 1Pet1:5).. Doctrine of Assurance.. absolutely unscriptural.. "Let him who thinks he stands take care lest he fall" (1Cor10:12).."Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any one of you an evil heart of disbelief, departing from the living G*d" (Heb 3:12).. "For we are partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end" (Heb 3:14).."..again entangled therein.." (2Pet2:20-1).. "Not every one who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt 7:21). We must, as Peter says, "strive to make our calling and election sure" (2Pet1:10).. faith naturally issues forth in good works (Eph 2:10, Jas 2:17-26, 1John1:4)..Personal..Savior.. does not use those particular words, and neither does the New Testament.. vast majority of Christians in the world practice infant baptism.. It is the Baptists and other evangelicals who are the innovators in this regard.. not after profession of faith, but in anticipation of faith.. faith of children as an example for adults (cf Mark 10:15).. The parents and sponsors of the infant to be baptized pledge that the child will "unite himself to Christ" as he is raised within a Christian home and the family of the Church.. [Confession] gave his apostles the power to remit or retain sins (cf Jn 20:23) This same authority is still possessed by the Church.. Serious sin, however, results in excommunication from the sacramental life of the community (cf 1Cor5:1-5) and thus the individual is restored to the community by the absolution of the priest upon evidence of repentance.. [Communion] "this is my Body" (cf Matt 26:26).. "This is my blood.." (Matt 26:27).. "He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him" (Jn 6:56). And "Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you" (John 6:54). Just as in the present, there were many then who heard this teaching of the Lord but could not accept it. The Scripture tells us that these disciples ceased to follow the Lord rather than accept His teaching (John 6:60-66). They were in truth the first Protestants!".. - - - - - Orthodox Observer 26SEP84 Evengelical Orthodox Elaine Alexis Gournaris ..In 1968 and 1969, many top staff people of Bill Bright's Campus Crusade for Christ left.. "We were evangelizing students and bringing them to Christ, but we were not baptizing them and bringint them to the Chruch.".. 1974 they established themselves as the New Covenant Apostolic Order.. studied Church history.. Saints Ignatios and Athanasios became their teachers and heroes. Then in 1979, using a service they had discovered in their study, the men ordained themselves bishops and established the Evangelica Orthodox Church.. began to meet Orthodox priests and bishops who enabled them to see that the Church they were seeking to become already existed.. modeled itself after the early Christian Church - small communities located in one area (primarily in the South, West, and Midwest) centered around the bishop, and accountable to the ecclesiatical authoroties.. dialogue.. While a scripturally sound practice, the ordination of married men to the episciopate is no longer part of the life of the modern Orthodox Church.. [A few years after this article, a most of the Evangelical Orthodox, under Bp. Peter Gilquist, joined the Antiochian Archdiocese of America, because of all the Orthodox jurisdictions in the USA, they were the most assimilated to American life.] - - - - - On Western Confessions of Faith Alexis Khomyakov [This article has been translated from the 1864 French, to Russian to English. A polymath, he is considered the greatest Orthodox theologian of the previous century. In many ways, he is the father of modern ecumenism. In the preface to this version, his biographer, A Gratieux, a Vaticanist, is quoted as saying his polemics were "supremely irenical.. best way of preparing union is to posit the problems in their depth and thus to dissipate all misunderstandings" (Paris, 1939, v1 p147). ISBN 0-913836-46-x Schmemann, Ultimate_Questions, 1977 StVlad, NY 10707, repr 1965 Holt R&W. tr 4/1964 Ashleigh E Moorhouse] ..Western Schism.. has been in existence for more than a thousand years [indicating Charlemagne's forcing of the filioque and not the actual Schism] How is it that during this time the Church governed by the patriarchs has not given birth to its own brand of Protestantism?.. In the West things developed very rapidly. Scarcely three centuries passed before Luther and Calvin came forward with uplifted heads, strong words, definite principles, and fixed doctrines.. Protestantism is one world simply negating another. Take away this other world which it is negating and Protestantism will die, since its whole life consists in negation.. Protestant world falls into two parts.. One has its own logical tradition, even though it denies a more ancient tradition. The other is satisfied with an illogical tradition. The first is composed of the Quakers, the Anabaptists, and other sects of that sort. The second includes all other so-called Reformation sects.. first half, having broken almost all ties.. claiming for themselves an unquestionable tradition and constant inspiration.. basic datum may be false, but its application and development are completely reasonable.. other half.. accept a tradition, and at the same time deny the principle by which tradition is justified.. to believe in the infallibility of learning, moreover of a learning which works out its propositions dialectically, is against common sence.. Protestantism has by no means extended the rights of free investigation, but has only reduced the number of reliable data subject to the free investigation of its believers (by leaving them only the Scriptures), as Rome has reduced this number for most of its laity, too (by depriving them of the Scriptures).. heresies did not violate this divine unity; they bore the character of private errors and not of schisms of whole regions.. at the moment of its origin, Romanism manifested itself as Protestantism.. It was as if the right of deciding dogmatic questions were suddenly altered. Previously this right had belong to the whole Ecumenical Church; now it was assigned to a regional Church.. pope became a kind of oracle deprived of all freedom.. Rationalism grew up in the form of arbitrary definitions: it invented purgatory in order to explain prayers for the dead; it placed between G*d and man a balance of obligations and merits.. barter of illusiory merits.. the Church-State introduced a state language: Latin.. informal bands of crusaders, and later, organized armies (the orders of knights-religious); and finally, when the sword was torn from its hand.. Jesuits.. are rationalists, and yet they accuse others of rationalism.. The Papacy says: "The Church has always prayed for the dead, but this prayer would be useless if there was not an intermediate state between heaven and hell; _therefore_ there is a prurgatory." The Reform answers: There is not a trace of purgatory either in Holy Scripture or in the early Church; _therefore_ it is useless to pray for the dead and I will not pray for them." The Papacy says: "The Church appeals to the intercession of the saints.. completes the merits of prayer and works of satisfaction." The Reform answers: The satisfaction for sins made by the blood of Christ and appropriated by faith in baptism and in prayer is sufficient for the redemption not only of man.." Clearly the sacred Communion of Saints is equally incomprehensible to both.. back and forth at each other with syllogisms through the centuries.. Romanism began at the moment it placed the independence of individual or regional opinion above the ecumenical unity of faith; it was the first to create a heresy of a new type, a heresy against the dogma of the nature of the Church, against her own faith in herself. The Reform was only the continuation of this heresy under another name.. - - - - -